Hardness,TDS

[Teddy]

Hallo Kois-ers..
minta pencerahan nya donk..maklum dulu kimianya jeblok nich.

bbrp literatur mengatakan soft water bagus untuk koi sehingga banyak yg memakai RO.
apakah hubungan antara soft water dgn KH,GH dan TDS?
Saya bingung banyak org yg menaikkan KH karena saya pernah baca juga bahwa low KH berbahaya karena bisa membuat ph tdk stabil shg banyak yg memakai oyster shell sbg buffer termasuk breeder jepun..

apakah soft water berarti low tds, low kh dan low gh?
di angka berapa parameter2 tsb masih dianggap soft?

[wawan]

Waduh pak saya belum bisa jawab nih... mungkin para suhu yang bersedia menjawabnya... :oops: :oops: :oops:

[hankoi]

Iya nich saya juga masih bingung :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
mana yach para suhu??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Coolwater]

Kayanya pertanyaan ini utk pak Davkoi yg menggunakan bakki shower. Biasanya pak Davkoi yg posting artikel2 tentang TDS.

[tenonx]

Iya nich saya juga masih bingung :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
mana yach para suhu??? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

wah suhu saya aja ga bisa apalagi saya neh ya :o :o :o :o :? :? :? :? :P :P :P :P :P :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[KARHOMA]

Kayaknya pernah di bahas ama pak Sunu klo gak salah :roll:

[SUNU]

:twisted: :twisted: :o :o Jangan nuduh dong Pak!!! :D :D :D

[KARHOMA]

:twisted: :twisted: :o :o Jangan nuduh dong Pak!!! :D :D :D

ampyun suhu sunu ......... :P :P :P

[wawan]

:twisted: :twisted: :o :o Jangan nuduh dong Pak!!! :D :D :D

ampyun suhu sunu ......... :P :P :P

Kirain Suhu... eh ternyata SUNU.... eh bukan juga....
Apa karena suhu nya lagi panas nih jadi gak bisa ngomong... :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[tenonx]

Kirain Suhu... eh ternyata SUNU.... eh bukan juga....
Apa karena suhu nya lagi panas nih jadi gak bisa ngomong... :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Cari es batu aja pak klo panas :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[hankoi]

Masukin aja kepala ke kulkas kalau panas :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[luki]

Hallo Kois-ers..
minta pencerahan nya donk..maklum dulu kimianya jeblok nich.

bbrp literatur mengatakan soft water bagus untuk koi sehingga banyak yg memakai RO.
apakah hubungan antara soft water dgn KH,GH dan TDS?
Saya bingung banyak org yg menaikkan KH karena saya pernah baca juga bahwa low KH berbahaya karena bisa membuat ph tdk stabil shg banyak yg memakai oyster shell sbg buffer termasuk breeder jepun..

apakah soft water berarti low tds, low kh dan low gh?
di angka berapa parameter2 tsb masih dianggap soft?

Hallo Pak Teddy...

mungkin literatur ini bisa membantu pak.....saya sendiri juga bingung untuk mengaplikasikan nya pak.......
yang saya belajar dari suhu suhu Kois .....mereka bilang yang paling penting menjaga DO,PH,nitrate dan Populasi ikan dengan cara mengetahui kekuatan filter kita masing masing serta mengatur pemberian pakan selama filter kita masih bisa handle.....

tolong di koreksi kalu ada yang salah....

salam,



Japanese breeders and universities are constantly striving to perfect production, growth, and health aspects of koi; it is accepted that the Japanese are the true masters and have made important discoveries that link good koi health, excellent growth and superior hi development to many aspects of koi keeping, including the subject of water hardness, and TDS levels. This wonderful hobby would benefit greatly from attempting to learn from the Japanese professional Nishikigoi industry.
It's all too common to hear people say that mains water in certain areas is too soft, and should be hardened. It's understandable that Carbonate Hardness (KH) should be elevated, but the same cannot be said for General Hardness.

Accepted Wisdom
It is generally accepted in Japan by the koi industry/breeders, that koi growth is enhanced in soft, and pure water. Hi will become thicker, the shine of the
skin (Tsuya) will improve, and last but not least, the health of the koi will be stimulated and greatly enhanced, hence less problems. One point worth noting is that the Japanese feel that hard water will cause pigment cells on the koi's skin to lie flat to protect itself from hard water, hence, koi in hard water will often look a very vivid, and hard red. But, in soft water, the pigment cells will stand up rather like velvet, giving a softer colour, but much better lustre and colour quality.

KH Carbonate Hardness or Alkalinity.
Carbonate hardness is essential for the buffering effect it has on the pH of water within a pond. If a recorded pH of a given volume of water is 7.5 and an amount of acid is added, it is commonly expected that the pH value should drop by the corresponding amount of acid added. If there were little or no KH value to the water, this would be the case, but the purpose of KH is to act as a buffer, so rather than the acid directly influencing the pH value, the acid is spent on the carbonate ions in the KH value, and only when the carbonate reserves of the KH value are used up will the acid directly influence and lower
the pH. Hence, if the KH value falls too low, the pond water pH will be influenced too easily by everyday occurrences such as fish respiration, fish urine, waste by-products from filtration system bacteria, plant life and even acid rain – in short, just about everything that is considered normal in a pond environment that is capable of introducing an acid base. So by these examples it is easy to see why KH is so important.
If a pond has a low KH, and regular pond maintenance isn't carried out, the water will lose it's buffering capability, and the pH will fall. At first this isn't a problem, as koi are best suited to a pH of 7.0. But, if left unattended, the pH will fall to dangerous levels, and quickly crash the system, resulting in acidic water, and a pond full of either very unhappy or dead koi.
A good KH level should be somewhere in the region of 2 to 6dH, with my preference being 3dH. There is no point in running a higher level than six, as this will often result in a rise of the pH. The Japanese consider a pH of between 6.8 and 7.4 to be ideal.



GH General Hardness
This is a measure of the amount of dissolved solids (mineral content), for example, calcium and magnesium. GH has nothing directly to do with the KH buffering
effects of water. A GH measurement is no indication of the KH value as the two are totally separate independent readings. Japanese Nishikigoi professionals desire low GH values. GH can be measured as ppm or dH, (German Degrees of Hardness). A typical tap water reading in the Bristol area is around 14dH (250ppm, or parts per million). In Japan this would be considered extremely high! The general guide as an optimum GH in Japan is about 50ppm (2.9 dH), with many people feeling that if a reading is at or above 2 dH (34ppm), it should be lowered.

TDS Total Dissolved Solids
A TDS reading represents anything that is dissolved in the water being tested. This includes GH, KH, fish waste, uneaten food and chemicals. It is often said that koi will only grow to the size of the pond, but in truth, the koi will grow according to the TDS level in the pond. A heavily stocked pond, with lack of water maintenance will result in a TDS level that will continuously escalate, hence slowing koi growth as they get older, (consuming more food, and creating more waste).


Other points to remember:
• Feeding raises TDS,
• Chemicals raise TDS,
• Fish waste raises TDS,
• Iron, salt, and calcium raise GH, and hence also raise TDS,
• High Nitrates raise TDS.

Low water hardness and low Nitrates are of the utmost importance in the quest for maximum growth, and good development in koi.



Japanese Opinions
Water GH value should be as low as possible, also if GH measures 2dH (34 ppm) or over, it should be lowered.
Hardness is an indication of the amount of calcium or magnesium; the lower this is the better suited the water is to the raising of Nishikigoi. A reading
below 50ppm (2.92dh) is considered desirable. This degree of hardness is also
said to control the appearance of the hi and the sumi".


– HIGH GH LEVELS/high TDS.
Good sharp white ground and sumi development, but poor growth rates. (Ideal for those that are hoping to show their koi, or those that have less time to devote to pond maintenance). High GH levels can also cause hi (red) to break up.

– LOW GH LEVELS/low TDS.
High growth rates, deep and even hi, but softer white skin, and slower sumi development. Bear in mind however, that just a few weeks in hard water will improve the white skin ready for a koi show. It would be preferable to definitely go for the latter approach, it could be viewed as a waste of time and money to invest in buying an expensive koi, and then restrict it's growth and development. Please bear in mind that if a koi is destined to develop sumi, it will still develop in soft water, but will just take longer.


Maximising potential
Compare your mains water TDS to your pond TDS. If your pond TDS is significantly higher than the mains water, then it is because your pond is probably overstocked, overfed, or perhaps just badly maintained. Weekly monitoring of the TDS levels can enable you to adjust your pond water, and hence, maximise your koi keeping pleasure! You too can grow koi like as though they were in Japan! Also, bear in mind that Japanese water usually contains virtually no minerals, hence the benefit of adding clays. Ask your local water board for a report, and see for yourself what kind of mineral content is present. But, bear in mind that an abundance of minerals means a high GH, and hence, a high TDS. Don't waste the growth potential of your koi, and don't forget that if you want to make your koi grow big, make sure the parents are BIG!...even soft water won't
make inferior koi become big.

[steamkoi]

Bro Luki :) a Very Nice Post!!

[Teddy]

Tks Bro Luki..

biasanya Pak Gom urun rembug kalo berbau kimia nich (kata pak guru kimia dulu salah satu murid bintang )

[svenni]

Hi Luki,

excellent info :D

Actually regarding the TDS the essence/message is simple......install a proper filter and get the waste out of the water. I think that's one of the key issues.

For the hardness I am not sure whether it is really recommended to do too much adjustments. I think the most important is the stability of the water parameters. Actually koi (or carp) are quite flexible as far as water parameters are concerned. The main cause of problems/stress comes from instability/frequent changes of parameters (such as pH, DO or Ammonia/Ammoniac). I also think that our water temperatures of around 27-28 deg. have much more effect to colours and lustre of the koi than the hardness. Furthermore I think that the food also is a much bigger factor in that case. Many of us actually use quite cheap koi food which will result in less growth, colour development etc..

Just a personal thought :mrgreen:

[Davkoi]

Kayanya pertanyaan ini utk pak Davkoi yg menggunakan bakki shower. Biasanya pak Davkoi yg posting artikel2 tentang TDS.

Lha itu . udah dijawab dengan baik dan benar oleh bro luki :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Coolwater]

Kayanya pertanyaan ini utk pak Davkoi yg menggunakan bakki shower. Biasanya pak Davkoi yg posting artikel2 tentang TDS.

Lha itu . udah dijawab dengan baik dan benar oleh bro luki :wink: :wink: :wink:

iya, pak Davkoi lama ga masuk forum jadi duluan pak Luki. :D

[alkemisa]

Maaf ini ada referensi nih terkait kimia, atau bahan kimia bisa lihat di website https://www.eonchemicals.com/ Semoga ada informasi yang sesuai yah. Terima kasih.

[brokdj]

belum bisa jawab om, nunggu yang lain ja